The Life and Death of a Ball Turret Gunner

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 08/13/2020 at 12:35 • Filed to: wingspan, Planelopnik

10

24

When the Boeing B-17 was first unveiled to the press, one reporter noted all the guns sticking out of the plane and said it looked like a flying fortress. The name stuck. Over time, more guns were added and, with the definitive G model, the Flying Fort sported thirteen .50 caliber defensive machine guns. Two of those were in a powered ball turret that protruded from the belly of the bomber. William Cart completed 35 missions as a ball turret gunner, and he tells his story in this short video.

The Eighth Air Force arrived in England in the spring of 1942 and began operations against Nazi-occupied Europe on August 17 of that year. Putting hundreds of bombers in the air over a target required detailed planning and training, which is documented in this movie about bomber operations in 1943. It covers everything from strategic bomber doctrine to formations to fighting, and has footage of the various defensive gunners fending off Luftwaffe fighters. As the bombers approach the target, guns are loaded and the waist gunners don their heavy lead flak vests, which the ball turret gunner would not have been able to wear in the cramped confines of his turret. You can also hear B-17 waist gunners talking enviously of the ball turret. Perhaps this was intended to get recruits to volunteer for the position.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! describes how the turret was not only a cramped and dangerous place, it was also a challenge to get off a good shot at the fighters knifing through the bomber formation. It’s likely that the top gunners saw more action because the fighters tended to attack from above. Before the twin .50s were added to the chin of the B-17G, head-on was the preferred attacking point.

“The good news was you had the best view of any other crew member; the bad news was that if the plane took a hit and there was damage to the mechanism that raised and lowered the ball turret, you were on your own,” Lewi said.

“There were many instances, and they are pretty horrific, where the ball turret was stuck and the bombers have had to make crash landings. Everybody else in the plane understood that the [ball turret gunner] was a dead man. He’d be crushed.”

A ball turret, likely belonging to a B-24 Liberator, that was struck by flak

It’s difficult to find data about which gunner was the most vulnerable, or suffered the most casualties. Some say the tail gunner, since many attacks were made from behind. But all bomber crew members suffered mightily in the nightmare of flak and fighters over occupied Europe. !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , who served in the US Army Air Forces during WWII, though he did not fly, wrote this poignant short poem about the fate of one particular gunner, but it was likely an end experienced by many bomber crewmen.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

The Death of a Ball Turret Gunner

From my mother’s sleep I fell into the State,
And I hunched in its belly till my wet fur froze.
Six miles from earth, loosed from its dream of life,
I woke to black flak and the nightmare fighters.
When I died they washed me out of the turret with a hose.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Connecting Flight

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

If you enjoy these Aviation History posts, please let me know in the comments. You can find more posts about aviation history, aviators, and aviation oddities at !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Sovande > ttyymmnn 08/13/2020 at 12:48

0

Cool article, thanks! I just watched Midway, which was a truly terrible film, but the scenes of the planes dice-bombing the Japanese carriers were pretty amazing. I would assume there is some truth in the imagery and if so, it is amazing that any pilot ever did it twice.

My grandfather flew the hump in WWII.  Amazing stuff.

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > ttyymmnn 08/13/2020 at 12:51

2

That’s gunna be a no from me.

MonkeePuzzle > ttyymmnn 08/13/2020 at 12:51

1

YURG!

just the seating position alone. I know they werent usually in there the whole flight, but still

reminds me of the side view of le mans type cars, where the feet are raised. cannot be comfy after a period.

except of course, the le mans car is safer and far comfier by comparison

ttyymmnn > Sovande 08/13/2020 at 12:54

2

Thanks. This was a piece that started out with the discovery of a cool video (top) and then turned into something much more. I love that shot of the guy inside the turret. Many of the turret gunners didn’t wear a chute because they couldn’t fit inside with it. That whole contraption looks like a death trap.

I watched Midway recently and I agree, it’s a horrible film. Factually accurate, but some of the facts they focused on seemed added for the sake of veracity and didn’t really add to the overall story. The imagery was good, but I think the last shot of our hero dropping the bomb on Akagi (?) was dumb. At the flat angle he dropped from, that bomb would have just skipped across the deck. It did make for a dramatic scene, though.

Flying the Hump was an extremely dangerous duty. I’m assuming he survived? I did a small piece about the Hump last Wednesday, not surprisingly.

ttyymmnn > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI 08/13/2020 at 12:58

0

My fat ass wouldn’t fit inside a B-17 anyway, let alone the ball turret. Max crew weight on the Fort was 1, 200 lbs, and that was with 10 guys. Only skinny farm boys need apply. 

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > ttyymmnn 08/13/2020 at 13:00

1

Yeah, I’m fortunately way too tall to fit in the deathball. 

ttyymmnn > MonkeePuzzle 08/13/2020 at 13:00

2

Similar to the driver position in an M1 tank. Drivers have been known to fall asleep simply because they are so reclined. The other thing about that position is that it is probably extremely difficult to GTFO if you have to. 

Sovande > ttyymmnn 08/13/2020 at 13:04

3

I’ll read that too!

Yes, he survived. He never talked about it much other to confirm that was him in the pictures and that the medals were all his. He was a funny guy. Once entered a contest for a new jingle for a condensed milk company: “no teets to twicth, no dung to pitch, just poke a hole in that sonofabitch.” It didn’t win, but he was provided a letter thanking him and assuring him that his was among the best.

He ended up buying a piece of property that is on the banks of Bull Run Creek and was standing during the first and second Batttles of Manassas during the Civil War. I remember as a kid that there were always people out there metal detecting for bullets and minie balls and stuff. He was also ins trumental (along with his good friend Annie Snyder - who is an amazing story as well - see below ) in keeping Disney from turning the battlefield into a theme park. The property is now in my aunt and uncle’s name and can’t be sold outside of the family - if no one wants it, it will revert to the Park Service.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-jul-27-me-snyder27-story.html

This briefly mentions my grandfather, Gilbert LeKander.

https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/mana/adhi6b.htm

PowderHound > ttyymmnn 08/13/2020 at 13:08

2

I recall my Grandfather telling me some somewhat gruesome stories of these things. It boiled down to they would keep a pistol inside the ball in case something went wrong with the plan e where they were stuck in there and the landing gear didn’t work.

MonkeePuzzle > ttyymmnn 08/13/2020 at 13:08

4

its an easy process. in an emergency you just roll sideways and... OH NO MY LEGS ARE ASLEEP!!!!

ttyymmnn > Sovande 08/13/2020 at 13:13

1

Neat! Thanks for the links.

Your grandfather’s jingle reminds me of my grandfather’s favorite joke:

There was a rich old buzzard who had a rabbit that worked for him. T he rabbit’s main job was to haul carts of manure to the buzzard’s house. One day, the rabbit came to the house to collect his pay, and the butler answered the door.

T he buzzard said haughtily , “Mister Buz - zard is out in the yard .”

And the rabbit replied , “Well, you t ell Mister Buz - zard that Mister Rab - bit is here with the shit .”

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > ttyymmnn 08/13/2020 at 13:13

1

Well thanks now I'm distressed

ttyymmnn > PowderHound 08/13/2020 at 13:14

0

Yikes. I can’t imagine being in that position. 

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Sovande 08/13/2020 at 13:17

1

Those are some great stories, and awesome that he helped save that property from becoming a theme park!

Nothing > ttyymmnn 08/13/2020 at 13:18

5

My dad was the top gunner on a B17 in 43-44. I was just looking through his incomplete handwritten flight log. He got his Luck Bastards Club certificate in April 1944, which is 30 missions over Europe. I know he surpassed his 30, but not sure of the final total.

The was on “Scap Iron” for his 30th. I know he also flew on the Silver Lounge.

slipperysallylikespenguins > ttyymmnn 08/13/2020 at 13:26

1

They had one out at the Big Sandy Shoot that you can pay to get in and fire.

It’s owned by www.bombercamp.org , they do a bunch of cool programs.

ttyymmnn > Nothing 08/13/2020 at 13:29

0

From Wiki:

Some forty thousand airmen died by the end of World War Two, or one in three crewmen. A World War Two bomber crew member’s life expectancy was fifteen missions. At the beginning of the war, twenty-five missions was considered a full tour of duty, but once pilots became more efficient and effective in air combat, the standard increased to thirty-five missions.

Once pilots became more efficient and effective, and also when we finally had escorts that could fly the whole mission. Imagine the sinking feeling when the “Little Friends” peeled off and went home. I’m sure doing the job helped when all that flak was coming up, but still. Did your dad ever talk much about his time in?

ttyymmnn > slipperysallylikespenguins 08/13/2020 at 13:38

1

I was originally going to put that video in the post, but the writing went a different way and I used the training video instead. Sadly, some of the shots in that video were takin onboard Nine-O-Nine , which crashed last year with the loss of seven of the thirteen on board.

Only Vespas... > ttyymmnn 08/13/2020 at 13:43

1

Nice work! Another great article.

Perhaps during   the daylight raids the bottom turret had few opportunities, fighters attacking from the sun or head on, but at night it was s different story. T he RAF had few ventral turrets. The bottom is where the majority of Luftwaffe night fighters attacked. They even had a special upward angled Schrage Musik [Jazz Music]  twin 20mm MG installation in most Nachtjagdgruppen fighters. Soon after its introduction Lt. Peter Erhardt shot down four RAF bombers within a half hour. Things may have been different if there was a belly ball.

slipperysallylikespenguins > ttyymmnn 08/13/2020 at 13:48

1

Ah, I didn’t realize that was their plane. They still have a lot of photos of it on their site and this rather subtle statement:

2020 Update: In light of recent events, The B-17 will not be available for this experience this 2020 Bomber Camp. However, the B-24 Liberator will still be available for flying.

Sovande > Snuze: Needs another Swede 08/13/2020 at 13:53

0

It would certainly have ruined that part of the state. Moreso than it has been ruined thus far, anyway. I’m fairly convinced that Luck Stone will leave it as nothing but giant open pits if they are allowed to continue the quarries out there.

Pretty great place to spend every weekend as a kid though. My grandfather, who was my grandmother’s second husband after having been widowed some 25 years prior, was as small guy, maybe 5'7 and 140 pounds. He used to cut the grass (there are about 7-8 acres out there) on a riding mower. He wore a straw hat and light blue speedos with low top Chuck Taylors. He carried a 22 rifle with him and would shoot copperheads. He was never without a curse word and a Pall Mall in mouth.

ttyymmnn > Only Vespas... 08/13/2020 at 14:08

1

Thanks. Writing these things are funny. I’ve got three articles that I started months ago and just can’t bring myself to finish, while this one basically wrote itself in about 24 hours. I guess it’s all about inspiration.

It would be interesting to look at fatality rates as a percentage of sorties between the Americans with their daylight raids and the British bombing at night. I’m sure those numbers are out there somewhere. 

kanadanmajava1 > Only Vespas... 08/13/2020 at 14:49

0

I don’t think that belly turret helps much. If a fighter approaches from behind and sneaks up under a bomber the turret guy is unlikely to spot it in the darkness . It’s just a dark spot over a dark ground. The night fighters did have a radar system to help them locate bombers but likely you can see the bomber against the dark sky from below when you are close enough.

Of course you’ll see the first shots when another bomber is been attacked. But the turret guy would have to be really fast trying to shoot towards the muzzle flashes and not hitting his own friends.

Nothing > ttyymmnn 08/13/2020 at 15:26

4

He spoke a little bit about it. He mentioned one time they had to drop out of formation, when they returned back to base, all of the crew’s belongings were already gone, they had been assumed dead. He also talked of “cleaning missions” when they would have to go help recover bodies from bombings on England when they weren’t flying. He first mentioned it when we were watching the aftermath of the Oklahoma City bombings.

A few years after my dad died, a former crew mate had located our family, and we exchanged a few emails. His first plane, the Silver Lounge, got its name from having to be stripped of its paint, the crew was responsible for that work, because it was determined the planes were faster without the added weight of paint.  By the time Ted had reached out, there were only a couple of members remaining from his crew.

My dad’s favorite place was the P51, for obvious reasons. A few decades later, he’d finally own his own Mustang (the Ford version, of course).